Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 13, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I was just thinking about a build that does something miraculous...

It's not without its weaknesses, however, with the right setup, it can literally res your entire team and continue a fight. Instead of outdamaging, it helps by outlasting almost anything chucked at it. It's not without its weaknesses.

stats:

Strength: 7+1
Swordsmanship: 10+2
Tactics: 9+1
Healing Prayers: 10

Seeking Blade
Pure Strike
Savage Slash
Flourish {E}
Bonetti's Defense
I Will Avenge You!
Balthasar's Spirit
Restore Life

This build seemed rather sporadic to me at first but I needed it to do 3 things. Out last enemy fire for a bit. I Will Avenge You is uncounterable. So you can use it to stay alive while Bonetti's Defense is up. Why the hell would one bring these tanky skills to pvp? When your whole team is dead, that's why. Very good I'm hoping for 4v4 but nigh impossible for 8v8. Balthasar's Spirit helps you gain energy despite no smiting and adrenaline can be gained through both this and I Will Avenge You! Getting hit while in Bonetti's Defense will also give you energy to cast Restore Life on another teammate.

All that adenaline should be used to feed the 9s. of Bonetti's Defense. During it's duration, excluding a Wild Blow, you should hopefully be able to cast Restore Life on an ally without being physically interrupted. Magically is a different story. While they're pounding on you, your Balthasar's Spirit should help you gain enough adrenaline to cast it again. Of course, I Will Avenge You helps with hp problems as well as brings you some adrenaline you need to feed Bonetti's.

Lack of energy weighing you down? Bonetti's should make up for it alongside Balthasar's Spirit.

Energy should rarely be a problem with 3 energy management skills in here. Despite the 1 energy pip, Bonetti's and Balthasar's Spirit should more than make up for it. Flourish {E} just makes it better.

The weaknesses are glaringly obvious. Until your whole team dies, some skills will be 'dead skills'. Restore Life, I Will Avenge You! come to mind. If Balthasar's Spirit is removed, getting energy will only come from Bonetti's and Flourish. Wild Blow stuffs your Bonetti's. This warrior is also hindered by hexes/conditions just like any other warrior, however, since his goal isn't necesarily to fight, all he needs to do is ensure his team is up and running. Magically interrupting him while casting is also a problem.

In retrospect, he probably might serve better ressing his team long before two members go down. If he's spawned fighting a team of nothing but warriors/rangers/monks, he's in luck. This build setup should allow decent resistance to their assault while gaining the energy and adrenaline he needs to bring his team back from death.

Definitely on the weird side but I think it'll work with the synergy here.

Deals some dmg? 3 sword skills: check
Manages energy with only 1 pip? 3 energy skills: check
Defends against physical interruption? check
Adrenaline engine to feed Bonetti's? 2 skills: check

So you've got two modes with this build. With nobody dead, you can just unload on your foes with the 3 sword attacks, Flourish {E}, and repeat. When a teammate goes down, you should have had enough Adrenaline and energy set to do both Bonetti's and cast out Restore Life. Whole team is alive? Continue...

What advice can I get? I know there's more counters but the glaringly obvious ones are really all we need to see.

Ideas?

Deathlord · Jul 13, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Hm... the build seems pretty stable but in a 8v8 situation you have very little means of keeping yourself alive in the beggining battle. Also, if you're trying to ressurect a teamate with little to no adreniline, bonetti's defense isn't an option. If you try to go on the offensive to build it, you can be countered by means of blind/weakness/slow attack speed/empathy. "I will avenge you" only lasts 10 seconds while carrying a heavy 45 second recharge time, I'm estimating it'll give a +HP Regen of 5 at 8 strength so that's only 100 hp max considering there are two dead teamates nearby. The attack speed bonus won't do you any good since during those 10 seconds you're probably trying to ressurect.

Main problem?
Almost impossible to stay alive from even a single aeromancer. Even if you manage to pull off Bonettis and Watch yourself while staying alive, you'll still only be able to ressurect one person.

Solution-wise, I cannot give a definiete answer since I haven't tried this build in PVP. I might get back to it if I ever get the chance.

ElderAtronach · Jul 13, 2005, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Yukito... for the love of god can you find a slower-moving avatar? I seriously can't read the top of your posts cause of that thing. Feels like I'll go into epileptic shock...

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 13, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

why are you so busy gawking at it?

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 13, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Well I did mention that 8v8 it probably won't work and the spike eles can take him out. So mentioning it again is kind of a moot point.

If you don't have any adrenaline when one teammate dies, what are you doing? Sitting on your thumbs? If a teammate dies long before you can even land 8 hits on an enemy, then there's obviously some problems.

No hex/condition removal. Blam, you're done.

But ideally, if your teammate monk can cover for ya, you should be able to get the adrenaline you need.

UberRusty · Jul 13, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21

I think you should have some sort of Endure Pain, or anything to make your max health higher, OR a Protective Spirit. Air Spike/Smite teams are becoming very popular in 4 vs 4. Meaning you will die very quick.

Racthoh · Jul 14, 2005, 01:44 AM // 01:44

In the time it takes to cast restore life I would assume the other team could

A) Kill you
B) Interrupt you

Bonetti's ends if you use ANY skill, remember that. I can't count the number of times I hit the key for that skill too early before one of my spells went off and died because of it. It also only gives energy for melee blocks, ranged attacks are blocked but no energy gain.

Since "I will avenge you!" is all nearby allies, why not use Light of Dwayna instead of Restore Life. Half the casting time, and more bang for your buck. It would require you to have full energy and the Gladiator Chest/Leggings on but it would be worth a shot IMO.

As is my understanding with "I will avenge you", you get 10 seconds of faster attack speed per dead ally. Why not bring in a Zealous Sword on one of your slots during those times of increased attack speed. Zealous > one pip of energy regen when attacking faster.

It looks like a build that requires a lot of skill, and if I still PvPed, I would have to try it out.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 14, 2005, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

In the time it takes to cast restore life I would assume the other team could

A) Kill you
B) Interrupt you

Bonetti's ends if you use ANY skill, remember that. I can't count the number of times I hit the key for that skill too early before one of my spells went off and died because of it. It also only gives energy for melee blocks, ranged attacks are blocked but no energy gain.

Since "I will avenge you!" is all nearby allies, why not use Light of Dwayna instead of Restore Life. Half the casting time, and more bang for your buck. It would require you to have full energy and the Gladiator Chest/Leggings on but it would be worth a shot IMO.

As is my understanding with "I will avenge you", you get 10 seconds of faster attack speed per dead ally. Why not bring in a Zealous Sword on one of your slots during those times of increased attack speed. Zealous > one pip of energy regen when attacking faster.

It looks like a build that requires a lot of skill, and if I still PvPed, I would have to try it out.

That's a good suggestion really. I've already mentioned several times in my opening post that this build can be stuffed, like any other build. But at least it tries to stay alive. Light of Dwayna doesn't sound like a bad idea actually, but only problem I see is that it has no mention of how much energy/hp they come back with. Though it's a sound idea. Glad you mentioned it.

Squallox · Jul 14, 2005, 03:50 AM // 03:50

I would post a really long detailed reply but my head hurts from that avatar...

Pretty good build anyway.

Winterclaw · Jul 14, 2005, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Another option is switch out two of your sword skills for condition dealers and get Victory is Mine and use it instead of flourish. I'm not sure about the energy recovery of flourish, but ViM will heal you too. Just a suggestion. I haven't used the skill a whole bunch yet.

I'm not a huge fan of interrupts, but that's because I never seem to time them right. You might want to consider hamstring to deal with runners and it'll help ViM a little as well.

BTW, I like Yukito's avatar... but I liked his old one better.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 14, 2005, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Everywhere I go, it's people talking about my avatar.

In any case, using the ViM idea would work, but to save energy, then it'd be time to go axe and use Dismember, Axe Rake, Axe Twist. The sword can only use hamstring with 10 energy. Energy we can't spare.

Racthoh · Jul 14, 2005, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

That's a good suggestion really. I've already mentioned several times in my opening post that this build can be stuffed, like any other build. But at least it tries to stay alive. Light of Dwayna doesn't sound like a bad idea actually, but only problem I see is that it has no mention of how much energy/hp they come back with. Though it's a sound idea. Glad you mentioned it.

I've seen one person use Light of Dwayna before, but I can't remember how much I came back with. Whether or not it was the energy consumption or the lack of energy/health it restores I'm unsure of. And from what I can gather from the posts about it on this site no one knows the exact percentages.

Here is what I would assume as well when you use it:

You will probably be the focus of attack because your other allies are dead. As such you would probably need a full 25 energy (+5 gladiator's as mentioned) so when first casting your energy would be drained. In that time, switch off the Zealous weapon (if you chose to use one) and regain I think 2 energy in that time plus whatever you gain from being attacked. Just before they revive, you could probably gain enough energy to throw up a "I Will Avenge You!" to gain a lot of regan and time of increased attack speed to continue your havoc. Switch back to the Zealous weapon (again, if you decided to go that route) and in no time recover energy to start Pure Striking, Seeking, and Savage Slashing followed by Flourish naturally.

Or what you could do is find a shield with +5 energy at all times (I had one with +6 but a 5 defense so I know they exist). Before they revive, switch it on, use the extra 5 for "I Will Avenge You!" to gain the regan before they revive. Heck the extra +5 from the shield would allow you to ditch the gladiator's armour altogether. Just use it on one of your switches along with say a +7 vs. elemental/physical or +5 vs. both on another sword for some extra defense when rezzing.

Oh.. or just get a monk offhand with like +12 to not only get the extra energy for Light of Dwayna but the "I Will Avenge You!" as well.

dragoon169 · Jul 14, 2005, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Yeah... try and resurrect your team, while the other team just stands back and kills anything you resurrect in seconds.Why attack a target they can't hit and with "I Will Avenge You" on? I'd rather go for the one that just got res'd, with DP and what...26%-45% health? Or, better yet, EASILY..oh so easily disrupt your res skill, and your useless. Res'sing should be left to the real pros: Me/Mo's using fast casting resurrect. Tanks are useless in PVP, your just delaying the inevitable.

Like you said, until someone(or your whole team in fact) dies, you have, actually, 4 useless skills. Bonettis and Balth Spirit will only work when your getting attacked...and if the other team goes for the warrior first...then they deserve to lose. This build would just be dead weight to the group. Damage output? So-so...but nothing compared to a warr focused solely on damage. Tanking ability? Err...who goes for the tanks first? Ressing ability? You'll get either interrupted, or just outright toyed with.

I know this sounds kinda harsh, but..builds that rely on lots of variables don't really fly with me(dead allies, which isn't a good thing to rely on in any case, the other team hitting you, no interrupts). And I also do a lot more 8v8 than 4v4, so I don't really know how those...random teams...work out against this build.

Racthoh · Jul 14, 2005, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragoon169

Ahahah...Yeah, try and resurrect your team, while the other team just stands back and kills anything you resurrect in seconds.Why attack a target they can't hit and with "I Will Avenge You" on? I'd rather go for the one that just got res'd, with DP and what...30% health? Or, better yet, EASILY..oh so easily disrupt your res skill, and your useless. Res'sing should be left to the real pros: Me/Mo's using fast casting resurrect. Tanks are useless in PVP, your just delaying the inevitable.

Regarding that, may I suggest a Heal Area immediately after revival? Prehaps make it replace the Seeking Blade since it doesn't strike for very much additional damage.

Shock value is what this build would have. Are you honestly expecting a warrior to attempt a 25 energy skill when the combat is almost at an end? And you wouldn't wait until everyone else is dead anyway, that would be very foolish. Plus, as you mentioned and as most people already know, warriors in general are never attacked first. If there are still elementalist, necros all casting spells, will your knockdown warriors and mesmers be focussing on what your warrior is doing? Not likely. And if the team is dedicated enough to bring in a strategy, make one of your mesmers have secondary monk and bring in Spell Breaker. Now try to interrupt that Bonetti's Defense and Spell Breaking warrior. Even with no points in Divine Favour, 5 seconds is more than enough time for Light of Dwayna to be cast.

Or, hard for a mesmer to stop two warriors running this don't you think?

Or your fast casting me/mo can attempt the Light of Dwayna after the warrior is interrupted. I could guarentee there would be few players expecting a move like that.

dragoon169 · Jul 14, 2005, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Yeah, that's true Racthoh. There's just too many things that can happen would screw over the warrior. But, with Spell Breaker...hmmm. I guess that about covers the last interruption weakness(power spike and whatnot). And yet, it's those lucky instances that scare me, as in, somehow a ranger manages to get through bonnettis with a distracting shot? lol. Oh, and the me/mo with Light of Dwayna as a backup is a good idea

.

I edited my earlier post, but I guess I'll say it again. Builds that rely on lots of variables don't really fly with me. Suppose that lucky ranger got his distracting shot in? Or that axe warrior got a disruption chop in >.<. Again, sorry about being a bit harsh, I guess I need to think a little bit outside the box(like 2 warriors running this thing...lol, and again, the backup mesmer would be good to fall back on if things don't go according to plan

).

Racthoh · Jul 14, 2005, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Prehaps far fetched, but only play testing can tell.

And I know the horrors of 75% chance to block. How I'm being hit by multiple Final Thrusts from a group of Griffins is beyond me. Relying too much on variables is dangerous indeed. It would be hard to get that 25 energy with 1 pip of regen while also doing various swords skills that require energy. Plus if there are no warriors to hit you, you'll be cursing Bonetti's.

And constructive criticisim is always good to help a build. Analyzing the scenario from all angles is the only way to perfect it.

Keure · Jul 14, 2005, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Odd build you have here, but your current objectives (withstand enemy fire for combat rezzing) could be more easily achieved with a Me/Mo while still allowing you to be more useful than a barebones sword warrior while your party is alive.

Quote:

I would post a really long detailed reply but my head hurts from that avatar...

No problems for me - Firefox image blocking for the win.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 14, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Hey, I happen to like the sexual headbutt...

But these aren't too many in terms of variables. True you can be interrupted but this should be used in FOUR V FOUR arenas!

In an 8v8, you can run this build but don't do it when you have 7 bodies to revive. Do it when 3 teamates go down. If there are 5 players left, chances are VERY good nobody's watching out for ya. Then BLAM, team is at least up and running and using Heal area doesn't sound like a bad idea either.

As before, I've already mentioned the magical counters to this build. And yes, Bonetti's has a 25% flaw but it's better than having a 50% one or something.

Don't try to sound smarter by coming up with counters as I already have. Add something helpful, not stupid...